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 Honda CX 500 first Café build

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IED

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:59 pm

Now then, Front break callipers.



Once I seperated the calliper I removed the banjo bolt



then the bleed nipple



and drained the break oil out of the calliper. Its important to remove both so as the oil runs out its desplaced with air and not get trapped in the calliper, the reason why will become clear in a moment.



Once its all out then put the bleed nipple back in and nip it up



Now remove the O clip and rubber from the calliper piston



Now with my compressor I attached the air gun and put it in the banjo bolt hole and pushed it in tight while I blew air into the calliper.



and the piston popped out the other side.



Now you see why its important to drain all the oil out, unless you want to cover yourself and your shed anyway.

Now they are ready for a refurb. Seals, pads etc.....



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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:20 am

Before I came in last night I popped the seat out of the mold, it wasnt perfect and had a few air bubbles in it, but I was expecting that as its a first attempt at a seat unit.

Anyway thats what filler is for. I gave it a good going over then sanded it all back.



I gave it a shot of primer and it didnt look to bad, although there are still a few tiny bubbles to get out, but over all I'm happy with the results.



I mocked it up with the tank and it looks ok









[img][/img][img][/img]
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:22 am

IED, think we will have to nick name you MR HAYNES.
Keep up the good work, Keeps us all inspired.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:35 pm

lol, just thought it might help others to be inspired to start the project they have been meaning to do but never got round to doing matey.

So, on to fork seals.

Very easy job to do and one that would cost you £80 to £100 in the garage.

First thing to do is remove the oil seal protector with a flat screw driver, but if you're going to re-use them then be carefull how you do it as they may split or get damaged.



Then remove the fork cap, but be careful as the spring inside is under compression.
Its best to loosen it off with a spanner then cup your hand over the cap and turn the tube with your other hand.



Tip the oil into an old container. That stuff looks like its never been changed.



Now invert the fork tube and remove the allen bolt in the end.



Turn the fork the right way up and pull the top out of the bottom leg



Now remove the clip that holds in the seal, then pry out the seal. Chances are you'll damage it by doing this so dont reuse it, replace it.



Next I cleaned the oil seal seat.



Then I pushed in the new seal and with the largest socket I have and a rubber hammer, I gently taped it all the way round untill it was below the groov the clip sits in.



I gave that a quick clean and stuck that back in.



Then replaced the top of the fork and the allen bolt in the bottom



Then replace the springs and washer



I went with these fork boots as I think they are a bit more cafe racer than the other seal protectors.



The bottom yoke was cleaned and painted a week or so ago so I stuck it all together to keep it in one place.

I still have to put oil in the forks but I'm going to do all the liquids and lubes at the same time.

That was an easy job to do and a real money saver.

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:52 pm

Excellent how too on both the seat and forks one thing I will say if you hold any thing in a vice which can be damaged by the vice jaws use what are called soft jaws either off the shelf or easily made out of a piece of aluminum sheet bent round the metal ones these will save damaging you chrome or parts softer than steel.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:45 am

When I brought my vise buddy, that was the first thing I sorted on it Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:52 am

Now on to the shocks



They seem ok in that there is no oil leaks in them and the chrome springs look good but the rest of the shock looks a bit tatty so I need to get them apart.

I dont have a spring compressor so I'm going to make one with what I have laying around in the shed.

First I cut a couple of lengths of threaded rod to about 40cm and ground the zink coating off the end.



Then with my grinder cut a slot in the end.



Next I ground the zink off a couple of washers with holes in them the same as the bottom mount of the shock.



I then taped them into the end of the bar and welded them into place



Next I took a bit of angle I had and cut a length 16cm long and cut a slot 5cm wide in the center.



Then held it to the shock and marked on it about the center of the shock.



and drilled out two holes for the threaded rod to go through.



While under compression I dont want the shock to come out of the compressor and hurt anyone, so I took an old bracket, heated it up and bent it to the right size to go round the shock.



and drilled a couple of holes in the back of the angle to bolt through. Just make sure they dont clash with the holes on the top or the rods will not sit straight.



Next I sat the shock in the compressor and secured it with the clamp



Another short section of bar through the bottem washers and shock mount and I started to wind down the top nuts untill the collet was free to pop out.



Now its all apart I can get on with refurbishing it.



A bit of a clean and a lick of paint should do it I think.

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:59 pm

So earlier today I figured out how to dismantle my shocks, now I've given all the parts a good clean



Then I got rid of the rust and paint on the body of the shocks



These tubes cover the shock plunger shaft and seal and protect it from dirt etc.
This bike is no longer going to be a daily ride to work and will get a clean after every trip so I'm not bothered about grime, but I do want to see the shafts, so I cut down the protective tubes



I'll get some paint tomorrow and give them a blast, then give it a few days and get them back together.

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:02 pm

After striping off all the old paint I went over them with meths to get rid of any grease or dirt then gave them a blast of matalic black.



Yesterday I was talking to a really nice guy from Hagen Shocks and told him what I was doing and he offered to supply new decals for my shocks free of charge. Result, they arrived today.



I painted the starter motor and a few other bits too





The next thing on the cards is to convert the engine to an electric fan. I need to replace this temp sender unit with a thermostatic fan switch. The only one I have been able to find that is a direct screw in fit is in America, so I brought on on Amazon last night.



It was £26.00 including shipping.

Its a BWD Automotive TFS500 Radiator Fan Switch





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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:26 pm

I reassembled the shocks when I got home today, and from what I started with



I'm pleased with what I have now

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:09 pm

I understand that the generators on CX's are very unreliable, so I've decided to get mine rewound.



Some of the bolts are a little awkward to get to and the gear shift has to come off



The water impeller came off next



Then the rear engine case came right off



and the generator is tucked inside

five bolts and its out



ready to go off to be rewound

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:30 am

I've been thinking about my exhaust for a while now and know I want it a cone shape (very cafe racer) and slung low.

I was having a tidy up in my shed extension and spotted the Motacs exhaust can it came with and thought I might be able to do something with it.



So out came the grinder and I started to chop



When I cut it I left the welds on the bits I wanted to join so there was more metal thickness to weld



I clamped the two together and stuck a few tack welds around it



I know my weldings a bit rough but it will grind back, and thats all that matters



I'll go over it with my power file and tidy it up a bit mor then paint it black



And thats another job done.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:47 pm

Not much to report as I'm waiting on stuff, but these are my replacement engine badges



I think they look awesome fitted

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:52 pm

So I've decided to fit an electric fan to my CX500 for the following reasons

The advantages are some increase in performance.
Better cooling cycle.
Little or no chance of the Mechanical fan grenading the Radiator.
Faster engine warm up.
Parts are easy to source and replace.

My fan switch arrived from the States today, for anyone interested in tapping the switch into their thermostat housing instead of soldering one onto the radiator, this unit is a direct screw in. But then you lose your temperature gauge, but its no biggy because I dont want one any way

BWD TFS500. You should be able to find it at most auto parts stores, I paid $26.00 including shipping.



Although it has an O ring I used a little plumbers mate on the threads to make sure it had a good seal



It looks like it was made for the job



new O ring and thermostat



and copper grease on the threads of the new stainless cap head bolts



then the thermostat housing can go back on



I'm going to use a rad off a ZXR600 RR as I understand the size and power they draw is just a out right fo the CX.

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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:53 pm

Love the badges, think they look awesome, all my mates are good for is standing their round in the boozer (if I'm lucky) but hey, they're Scotsmen, what more can I expect?? :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:14 pm

that sender unit looks like it was made for the bike,badges and exhaust look good have you decided on a final colour or is that a national secret Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:30 pm

Cheers mate.

No secrets, I share everything buddy. problem is every time I come up with a colour someone says "What if you did it".......... And Im back to square one matey.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:20 pm

well theres no going back now, i've decided to chop off the fan mount.



more room to mount the electric fan



I'm going to take my generator in for testing tomorrow, If alls well then I can stick it back in and start the engine rebuild.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:46 pm

A while ago I polished the rocker covers on my engin



Today I decided to polish the tops on my carbs, then couldn't resist trying on my new air filters



I still have to overhawl the carbs, but thats coming soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:14 pm

When I brought the bike the guy told me there was a problem with the battery charging, I went on the web and this is what I found.



Hope you find it helpfull as I did.



Battery Charging Problems



Battery charging problems sometimes arise. Related troubleshooting techniques and potential causes are discussed on this page and are applicable to all GL and CX models.



Testing The Charging System



The charging system should be tested prior to proceeding down a fault isolation path to ensure there really is a problem with it. This sounds obvious, but it's surprising how many times a charging system is deemed faulty simply because the battery runs down. The battery may be running down for other reasons, such as some newly installed gadget that places a small but constant load on the battery or perhaps a malfunction elsewhere in the electrical system.

The charging system health can be assessed by making two simple battery voltage measurements. (The procedure for measuring the battery voltage was previously described in the multimeter section.) First, measure the battery voltage with the ignition switch off (i.e. no load). It should be around 12 Volts. Next, start the bike and run the engine at about 2000 rpm and measure the battery voltage again.

If the battery voltage decreased, this indicates the battery is discharging under the electrical load of the bike and the charging circuit is not working.

If the battery voltage increased slightly but never rose higher than 14 Volts, the charging circuit is working but at reduced capacity or is overloaded. There is likely a problem that needs correction.

If the battery voltage increased to at least 14.2 Volts but not over 14.8 Volts, the charging circuit is working properly. On most bikes the charging voltage runs about 14.5 Volts.

If the battery voltage increased to above 14.8 Volts, the charging circuit is likely overcharging the battery. Again, this problem needs correction. For the GL500, one very common cause of this is a poor ground connection under the rider's seat, see here.



The Battery



It's possible for the battery itself to be the cause of a charging system problem even if it is new. It should be replaced if there is any question about its health because the charging system will not operate properly without a good battery installed. Among other functions, it stabilizes the charging system voltage.

One battery failure mode is for it to simply not hold a charge. This happens most often when the battery has some age on it, even more so if used infrequently. Check the battery voltage both with the ignition switch off and while cranking the engine.

With the ignition switch off (no load), the battery voltage should be 12 Volts or slightly higher. When cranking, it should not drop below 10.8 Volts or so. If this happens, the battery is probably defective or discharged. If the battery cables get really hot while cranking, another possibility is a serious engine problem where it is binding when turning over.

If the no-load battery voltage is less than 10.5 Volts there is a chance it has a shorted cell. When this happens, the battery cannot be charged to greater than 11.5 Volts or so. It may reach this value or higher with a charger connected, but the voltage will rapidly drop to a much lower value within a few minutes of disconnecting the charger. This failure mode is less common but does happen on occasion.

On a related topic, sometimes it may be necessary to jump the battery to start the bike. A 12 Volt car battery can be safely used for this purpose, whether installed in a car or not. However, I do not think it is a good idea for the car engine to be running when doing so. Significant high voltage transients can result from the car's charging system, particularly when subjected to intermittent high current loads. Although this occurrence is unlikely, especially with modern vehicle electrical systems, it is an unnecessary risk.



The Stator Connector



The stator connector is the connector with three yellow wires. This is where the alternator stator (located inside the engine) is connected to the regulator/rectifier module (located under the battery tray on GL bikes).



The stator connector has a long history of problems on many Honda bike models. In addition to charging problems, fires have started when this connector has malfunctioned. I'm aware of one CX turbo bike that was completely destroyed by fire when this connector failed.

This particular stator connector shows evidence of arcing and severe overheating. Thanks go to Honda CX500 and GL500 Forum member Dave from Slippery Rock for sharing this example.



Unplug the connector and closely inspect both halves for evidence of overheating, arcing, corrosion, and broken or frayed wire ends. A good solid electrical connection is absolutely essential here for all three wire junctions.

If there are problems, one time-honored and widely accepted repair is to remove the connector entirely, solder the wires together, and cover with heat shrink tubing. Alternately, Honda sells a connector repair kit (part number 31105-ML8-305) containing both connector halves and heat shrink tubing. In either case, soldering is necessary. An excellent tutorial for solder-splicing wires can be found here.



Grounding Problems



Check the grounds. A poor or intermittent ground connection can cause charging system problems including no charging or charging voltage out of range, either high or low. The GL500 in particular must have a good ground connection at this location under the seat for proper charging system operation.



The Stator



Stator failures are fairly common. Unfortunately, the stator is located inside the rear engine case. If replacement is necessary the engine must be pulled and disassembled to gain access to the stator. Fortunately it is not necessary to go to all this work to simply test the stator.



When testing the stator, multimeter measurements are taken at the stator connector with the connector unplugged.

Make sure you are taking measurements on the stator connector half that goes to the engine, not the connector half that goes to the regulator/rectifier. Tug on the wires to trace where they go - do not make a false assumption about which end is which. A simple mistake in selecting the wrong connector half could lead down an erroneous troubleshooting path so it is important to confirm what is being measured.



Stator Resistance Checks



First, measure the resistance between each of the three stator connector terminal tabs and ground. Set the meter function switch to the highest resistance range possible (2000K in my case). The negative meter lead should be connected to the negative battery terminal. Measure each of the three stator connector terminal tabs in turn using the positive meter lead.

A good stator will have infinite resistance to ground (open circuit or no continuity) from any of these terminals. If the meter reads anything else, the stator is defective.

Next, measure the resistance between each of the three connector terminal tabs. Set the meter function switch to the lowest resistance range possible (200 in my case). In this case, the negative meter lead is not connected to the negative battery terminal but is used to measure from one stator connector terminal tab to the next with the positive meter lead as shown in this photo. (This is the same photo seen earlier in the multimeter section.)



A good stator should measure well under one Ohm for each of the three possible test connections. As described in the multimeter section, be sure to consider the residual meter lead resistance when making this measurement - we are interested in the actual stator wire resistance, not that of the meter leads! If any of the three measurements are above 1.5 Ohms, the stator is defective.

Stator Voltage Checks



Assuming the stator resistance checks are good, the next thing to check is the stator open circuit voltage. The stator connector is also unplugged for this measurement. Set the meter to measure AC Voltage with a range selection of at least 100 Volts on your meter.

Start the bike and adjust the throttle so the engine is running at about 2000 rpm. Measure the AC Voltage between each of the three stator connector terminal tabs, tab-to-tab as in the previous resistance measurement (not tab-to-ground). Write down each of the three measured voltages.

The actual voltages measured are not so important, and they will vary with engine rpm over a range from about 40 Volts to 70 Volts. However, it is important that the three measured voltages are approximately the same value. A gross mismatch is a strong indication of a shorted stator winding.

A typical set of measurements for a good stator might be 53, 52, and 54 Volts. For a bad stator, this could be 18, 24, and 12 Volts. In the latter case the voltage is both grossly unbalanced and low.

A stator can pass the resistance checks but fail the voltage checks. In this case, one or more windings are shorted to themselves. Conversely, a stator can fail the resistance checks and pass the voltage checks. If the stator fails either set of checks it is defective.

Hot and Cold Stator Checks



The stator resistance and voltage tests should be performed both when the engine is cold and after it has warmed up to normal operating temperature. The stator windings can develop a short or open circuit as a function of temperature when they contract and expand. The tests are not complete until you've performed them under both conditions.

Stator Replacement



If you've positively determined that your stator is bad, there is a strong chance that nothing else has failed. That is the good news.

The bad news is that the engine must be pulled and disassembled to gain access to the stator. Since this is a significant task (although not really difficult), it makes sense to take care of other things within the engine that may also need attention while it is apart. The other big items are the cam chain and water pump mechanical seal, and the three together are often referred to as the "triple bypass operation." In addition, there are several seals and o-rings that should be replaced at the same time.

It is beyond the scope of this writeup to address all these items, but they are well documented on the Honda CX500 and GL500 Forum. In particular, check out the Quick Reference thread and the Triple Bypass Parts thread. You will also want to get a copy of the Honda factory service manual for your bike - don't even think of digging into your engine without it. A pdf copy can be downloaded for free from here. Should you have any questions, post a query on the Honda CX500 and GL500 Forum. The forum members will be eager to help.

There are several sources for replacement stators. More information can be found here.

The replacement stator will be provided with a new connector half, including the shell and terminal tabs. It should be the last thing installed after the engine has been replaced and the stator wires have been routed to the mating stator connector half. I recommend the new terminal tabs be both crimped and soldered. Unless you have the correct crimp tool it will be difficult to get a reliable connection otherwise. The last thing you want is arcing and related evils after the miles have accumulated and the wires work loose under vibration.

The original plastic connector shell has a locking tab to keep the connector halves secured together. Often the replacement connector shell is missing the locking tab. If this is the case, you may want to re-use your original connector shell if it is otherwise undamaged. The old terminal tabs can be easily removed by using a jeweler's screwdriver to press on their sides while gently pulling from the rear. Look closely at the new terminal tabs to see how they are secured in the connector shell.

The Regulator/Rectifier



The regulator/rectifier module performs two basic functions. It converts the AC voltage from the stator to a DC voltage, and it regulates the resulting voltage down to approximately 14.5 Volts as is needed by the rest of the electrical system. GL regulator/rectifiers are mounted to the bottom of the battery tray.



Honda CX/GL regulator/rectifiers are extremely reliable. I have no first-hand knowledge of one ever failing. Used ones are readily available on eBay for around $20, and given their reliability I would not hesitate to install a used one should the need ever arise.

The same cannot be said for aftermarket replacements, or even regulator/rectifiers used on other motorcycle models. Aftermarket replacement regulator/rectifiers cost around $100 new, but in general they have been found to be less reliable. One manufacturer in particular has a high percentage of defective units right out of the box.

The factory service manual and some aftermarket manuals describe procedures for testing the regulator/rectifier using multimeter resistance tests. It is my opinion that the results of these tests are unreliable and cannot be trusted. These test procedures were defined back in the days when multimeters were analog and had higher test voltages. A modern digital multimeter may or may not provide similar readings.

Perhaps the sole exception would be the case where a hard short (much less than an Ohm and reads the same no matter which way the meter leads are connected) is detected between the input and output. Failing this test would indicate a bad regulator/rectifier, but passing it would be inconclusive.

My recommendation is to simply replace the regulator/rectifier with a used Honda part as a last resort if all other charging system troubleshooting tests pass. It is very unlikely that your regulator/rectifier has failed. The probability of also having a defective Honda replacement part, even if it is well-used, is extremely remote.

If the other charging systems tests all pass, it is far more likely that there is a wiring problem.

Next Steps



The common charging system problems have been pretty much covered here. If you are still having problems with your CX/GL charging system, start a thread on the Honda CX500 and GL500 Forum and someone there (possibly me) will walk you through the troubleshooting process. Please do not ask for assistance directly via email; dialog on the forum is how the collective knowledge base grows and everyone benefits. Your tough problem will likely be experienced by someone else sometime in the future.



Multimeter Usage
Main Fuse and Grounding
Charging Problems
Ignition Problems
DC Voltage Testing
Resistance Tests
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:09 am

This is turning into a master class in bike building, very impressed bud!
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:01 am

Thanks mate, hope this is helpfull



I found these values if you want to test your sateor generator yourself



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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:29 am

I've been doing a bit of cleaning and painting over the last week or so, a bit boreing and not really that much to report.

I did the break shoe hub, and just the wheel to do.







I used a de-greaser to get rid of the dirt and oil on the center of the wheel, and I'll apply new grease where needed when I start the rebuild











Front wheel discs need to come off so I can get to the dirt and grease behind them







I'm going to paint the spokes in the wheels but polish the ally rims







So I went over them with a wire brush in my power drill







Things are starting to slow down a bit now because the list of jobs is getting ever smaller, and I have draws and shelves stuffed with finished parts. My stater/generator is away being tested at the moment as there was a battery charging problem with the bike when I got it. The last thing I want to do is take a chance its ok then have to remove the engine again.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:10 am

It's all looking really good IED. Spent all day bead blasting bolts and nut ready for plating (Boring job) but got to be done!
Looking forward to seeing the finished article.
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PostSubject: Re: Honda CX 500 first Café build   Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:24 pm

looking good mate hope to do some on mine tomorrow Very Happy
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